'It was great, yeah. But the people behind me... First I didn't notice them. I always like to play with my hair like this (James illustrates by wiping his typical hairdo in front of his eyes), so I'm more in my own world. But halfway through my set I noticed all those people dancing behind me. I was like: wow!'

(Luc and James install the stereo system) 
 


'So how did you pick the tracks for this? How did you decide?'

With most of them we're trying to get some stories about you. We're curious which music defines you and what's your opinion on some stuff. It's mixed. Maybe you can even guess what we're playing.
'Ha great! I just put the Shazam-app on my phone.' (laughing) 
 


Playing: DJ Koze - Mrs Bojangles

'Aah, it's DJ Koze. Which track is this?'

Mrs. Bojangles.
'Yeah, I love him. He's one of my favorite people.'

One of your favorite people or favorite musicians?
'A bit of both. The reason why he's such a good person is the same as why he's such a good musician. He's funny and surprising, strong and willful; he knows what he thinks. And his music is funny, without it being funny music - without being shit. It sounds like he's having fun, he's playing with things, a bit childish... I love the pitching he does. He's really free in his arrangements as well. I think he records his music like I do - doing a live tape for fifteen minutes and then find the bit in the middle where it's is good, and making a song around that.'

Like a band doing a live jam.
'Trying to catch the moment, not trying to make the moment. Like it was already there.'

Do you work like that too?
'Especially now, because I have more hardware. I haven't been drawing an automation curve with my mouse for three years now - which is nice.'

While jamming, do you catch the moment by coincidence?
'It's usually not in my head before, yeah. Sometimes I have an idea, like: I could wire up the synth like this, or see if I can make an instrument that behaves that way, and then see which music I can make with that. But the music is always... just what happens.'
When you're making the music it's not fixed, you've got all these settings, a loop or some patterns, and it could be anything. In the process of turning that into a finished seven minutes of music, it just feels really natural, it happens. This what we hear (speaking about Koze's song playing, ed.) sort of happened in his studio in that order. He didn't make it with his mouse and sort of cynically plan out his breakdown with some white noise. He has played this. Although he might have thought about it beforehand, the actual thing you hear, the shape of it, the up and down, that's the most important thing in dance music.'

Like DJ Koze, do you really have to know a person to thoroughly enjoy his music?
'Hahaha, I think with most artists I've met, not knowing them is probably better. At least it takes away the mystery, and in some cases it's disappointing to me.'

Playing: Harmonia - Veterano

'Is it Harmonia or is it... another band with the same people?'

It's Harmonia.
(James is focusing on the music) 'Which song is this?'

Veterano.
'It's funny: last night Jorn (Liefdeshuis, founder of Bar Weinig) told me he doesn't like krautrock. I don't understand how someone can not like it. I can listen to it in any situation: I can dance to it and be very happy, sleep to it, drive my car or cook or... it's the perfect Utopian, soothing music. I'm really obsessed by it for a lot of different reasons. The production is so amazing.'

There's this lack of structure...
'It does have a structure, but it never makes the structure obvious. And I think that that's a lot of why I like it - and why I hate straight techno. Harmonia is inspiring because of that, but also because of the way things go around each other in the mix. What they did would be really hard to do with all the magical gear we have now. They managed to do it in the sixties and seventies.'

Is it hard to adapt this kind of music into a dance floor scene, with all this, like you said, prefixed and predictable music?
'With songs like this one from Harmonia, the feeling of it, for me that's dancing. But it's very different to the mood that's in almost all club music. This is much more pastoral.'

Do you sometimes feel like fighting a battle you can't win? Or maybe more like being on an island?
'Maybe more like that... Yeah, the island thing is a really good description of it! I don't really feel I'm fighting. Sometimes I take a bit of pleasure into irritating people - like when I say straight techno is stupid, then it's insulting to the people who have mentally invested in that. I don't mean it like that. Especially the techno scene right now, with it's movement towards deephouse... It's just that I've heard too much of it.'

(James is looking for a way to smoke without leaving evidence)

Are you alone on this island? Or with your label?
'Part of the label, I think. But I also feel it's connected, especially the British scene now. Yesterday Gemma (James' girlfriend) went so see one of the guys from Fuck Buttons deejay, and he plays almost the same sort of records Kieran (Hebden / Four Tet - ed.) or I would play. It's actually connected, but it's not connected to Loco Dice or something.'

'This is Lucky Dragons, isn't it? I love this, they're the best band. Have you seen them live? If they ever come to Holland, you really must see them. They sit in the middle of the floor with all their equipment and they pass out home made instruments to the crowd. It's really social music. But the sound of it as well: I played this in my car to someone who likes dance music and he said it was the worst music he had ever heard. I don't understand how you cannot like it. To me this is dance music.'

Would you play this in a club?
'I have it on my laptop, but I haven't gotten round to burning it on a disk. But I'm thinking about switching to Traktor. That would make these sorts of things easier. You don't have to burn ten thousand cd's.'

Will Traktor change your dj-sets?
'I think it probably will. I'm quite interested; it's going to be quite funny. But maybe I'll be jobless in a years time.' (laughing)

Traktor makes it easier to play a certain loop you've finished the previous day. How do you feel about playing unfinished music?
'I have to feel it's at least the right shape before I can play it in a club. I quite like the idea that you could sync Ableton and Traktor to do some stuff. But shouldn't really talk about what I'm going to do. I've been doing that for so long and I haven't done very much.'

Like when you said on your blog that 2009 would be the year to finish things. Does that put too much pressure on you?
'I think people have almost given up asking. I don't really care about the pressure very much. Like last year I've had some personal stuff, but that's life, isn't it? This year is good. I've written two songs already. I did two songs last year... off you go!'

What about this Mogwai remix that recently showed up in the Resident Advisor podcast by The Psychonauts?
(surprised) 'Yeah! I don't know how that guy got it.'

But it is yours?
'It is. The band asked me to do it, but I don't think it's coming out...'

There were no intentions of releasing it?
'I really wanted it to be released; I think it's one of my best remixes. I played it in Berlin: half of the people in the room left and the other half was dancing like hippies - it was really good! But I don't have quite big enough balls to do that the whole time though. I don't want to alienate people. If they can enjoy a Margot record I don't really want to alienate them by playing ten minutes of Lucky Dragons and Harmonia. I'd rather try to get them to enjoy something interesting. They've payed for a ticket, they want to enjoy themselves. I do actually want everyone to have a good time.'

So it's not just James Holden playing all his favorite records, but also keeping in touch with the crowd?
'It's like a balance, at least. I'm not a complete cunt.'

Is it a balance between music that makes people cheer and the stuff that you really like?
'I like keeping the energy in the room. It's hard, I guess. Especially when you're... difficult.'

Do you consider yourself difficult?
'Yeah, or willful. At least music wise, not personally. I'm just doing what I feel like. I don't care too much. If someone doesn't like it, then they probably wouldn't like the other things I like, and I probably wouldn't like the things they like.'

How important is the technical part of deejaying to you?
'I think now, and maybe I'm wrong, I play more interesting, less straight music. But I can mix it and get away with it. Make songs go together, even though they don't really have an intro or outro. I have almost no records in my bag with this traditional DJ-intro. That's the worst thing in dance music, listening to two minutes of tush-tush-tush-tush. I've never seen any pleasure in that. Even when I was sixteen and liked deephouse and goa-trance.'

You talked about alienating the crowd with music like Lucky Dragons. Wouldn't you like to play for a crowd that's totally into Lucky Dragons then?
'I should take that back. I actually don't think Lucky Dragons would alienate anyone - if you play it right. But you never play all your favorite music, unless you are playing for yourself. London has a really good shoe-gaze night for instance, and I played at that, but there are still people with a different perspective.'

The Sky Was Pink 


How do you discover new stuff?
'Demo's, record shopping and... Yeah, that's it.'

You really go crate digging?
'I prefer to go to record shops, because on Beatport you can't find any good music. Everybody has the direct output of Ableton connected to the input of Beatport, with no filter in between. I really like to find records. Lots of people who make really exciting stuff are vinyl obsessives who only release their stuff on vinyl, you cannot find it on mp3.'

And the demos? You probably get a lot of them.
'We have these big Ikea crates full of cd's. It's like this high now (James moves his hand a meter above the floor) - and those are the unlistened ones. Gemma was trying really hard but didn't make any progress. You have to be really organized, if someone isn't getting an answer, they'll send the same cd again.'

What if something really good pops up?
'I can remember a moment when a Wesley Matsell-demo passed. Two hours of noise. Gemma and I were just standing in the middle of the room listening to it, and we stood there for the complete two hours. It really blew us away, such an amazing sound. We selected the best parts for his EP (Diffusion72, the B-side of Bernwerk, ed.). But in the crates... There's some good music, but there are like ten times more bad covers of The Sky Was Pink, so sometimes you'll lose your will to listen.'

Playing: Stephan Bodzin - Liebe Ist...

'...I know what you are pointing at. Look... I'm not interested in saying anything negative about Bodzin... (track is building to a climax) but this is really ugly isn't it?
Trying to copy a track is like cheating on someone's girlfriend, I think. Copying someone, and then telling people you're inspired by everything around you... I was asked to do a remix for a guy, so I checked some of his music and there was this release of him that sounded exactly like Petter's Some Polyphony. It made me so fuckin' angry. No chance I'd do a remix for someone who treats my friends like that.'

At Random 


Playing: Autechre - Gantz Graf

(drumming along with the rhythms) 'What is it? Autechre? When stuff like this comes at random play I'm always like: cool!'

Random play?
'We have this server in our house, with tons of music. There's always music playing, the first thing that I do when I wake up is putting it on. Most of the tracks are old stuff, but it's quite a chaos. There are unlistened demo's, sets of mine that have been sent to me... There's some terrible music on it as well.'

I assume you switch it off then.
'Yeah, but Gemma likes random play to be respected, so I can't, haha. On the other hand: when you've got so much music, you sometimes hear something and you never realized it's so good.'

What do you do if a set you played in a club comes at random play?
'I really don't like to listen my sets back. The only one I do sometimes listen to is the Pixel set (set James Holden played in the now closed Club 11 in December 2007): The first hour is the music I like to listen to at home. I just don't see the point in recording dj-sets. The only reason I can think of is that people want to discover new music, but... The whole thing of making movies with your mobile phone and putting them on YouTube... I've never even taken a picture in club.'

(We speed up the listening process a bit) 
 

'His music is so... the timing is what makes it so amazing. The rhythms are this indefinable, unknowable thing. In some of his stuff you can tell he hasn't worked with a grid, he just puts things wherever they sound right. I love him.'

Playing: Panda Bear - Bros

'Lovely!'

Playing: James Holden - Nothing

'I think I know this!' (laughing) 


How long has it been since you heard this one?
'A few weeks ago, actually. Kieran played it in his set, a night I had to play too.'

Are you still proud of it?
'Yeah, I am! I like the melody, only the intro is a bit boring. But that's the 'label-thing', I sent them my track, but they (Loaded Records, ed.) told me I had to extend the intro. I'm not ashamed of those trance-records, you know. A track like Horizons... I can still listen to it.'

Are you proud of all the music you've made?
'The Sky Was Pink is a different thing; with all those copies the original now tastes a bit bad to me.’ 


Playing: Ricardo Tobar - Mi Pieza Esta Llena de Cosas

'It's amazing, isn't it? Ricardo wanted to release it quickly because it's a song he did a while ago. I never release music real quick... That's why it's released on Traum, which was a good decision I think.'

That's a nice, unselfish thing to do. I can imagine you would love a song like that on your own label.
'What's good for the artists is way more important, I think.'

Playing: Ricardo Villalobos - Fizheuer Zieheuer

'Haha, are we gonna listen to the whole song?! (it takes 37 minutes, ed.) Don't get me wrong, Villalobos is really good. His rhythms are amazing. Again, no sequencing. It's never boring, although it sometimes seems that way (we forward the song for ten minutes and hear almost the same). It's about the listening experience - the song as a whole.'

James playing

Are there any tracks you want us to hear?
'Yeah, I was thinking about that. Let me see what's interesting to play...'

'Do you like Gold Panda?' (James browsing trough his laptop, that's anything except a fancy Macbook Pro) 

Maybe you should put a track on random play. Just imagine you're waking up now.
'Yeah, that's fun!'

Typical techno intro coming from James' laptop speakers.
(a bit ashamed) 'I think this is something I haven't deleted yet.'
 


(James connects his laptop to Luc's hi-fi set)

Playing: Tony Conrad & Faust - From the Side of Man and Womankind

'This is one of my favourite records - ever. I had an amazing listening experience with it together with some friends. We sat in this room and made it totally dark, even put black tape on the LED lights of music equipment we used. Everybody got into a trance-like state. This music is like sex to me, it's so...primal, animal-like.

I really don't know what else to pick. I've got all my tracks sorted on tempo and key, it's hard to just pick something. ...say a letter.'

I see an M (pointing at a card standing at the table). That must be a sign.
'...no wait. Stop the recording, I should play you something interesting.'

Playing: Unreleased and yet untitled track by James Holden

(We listen in silence, with James providing soft crispy background sounds while rolling a spliff)

Wonderful. Maybe it is because it's still in my head, but it sounds a bit like that Tony Conrad track to me.
'Yeah? Do you think it's a copy?'

No, not at all. Are you afraid of copying?
'Yes, I am. Most of the time when I'm busy with a song, I'm afraid it sounds too much like something else.'

Playing: Unreleased track by Margot

'This one is by Margot, they're our latest signing. It sounds so trancey and melancholic. It just makes it feel right, honest and unforced. I'm really happy that we found them.'

It sounds a bit like Arp.
'Yeah, and it reminds me of one of the Pom Pom releases. Just wait until the vocals come in... These must be the most beautiful vocals I've ever heard. But it's around 100 bpm...'

You think this song is too slow to play in a club?
'I haven't found the right moment yet. Again, Traktor would be easier here.' 


Top secrets

What can we expect from your label this year?
'Luke (Abbott) is doing something, Nathan (Fake) is working, Avus and...'

You?
'...maybe me, yeah. I'll do a single this year at least, maybe something more.'

Stuff that you already played in the clubs?
'There's one I'm quite pleased with already. I've been playing a new song and no one said: that's obviously you. People have guessed wrong.'

By playing these unreleased songs, is it important to check if people actually like them? Is it an influence on your decision to release a record?